Concealed: Revealed

Many area residents believe allowing guns on college campuses and 18-year-olds to carry concealed weapons could have grave consequences.

By TEDDYE SNELL

TAHLEQUAH DAILY PRESS — Joyce Rose and Judy Parrott, grandparents of high school and college-age youth, always have safety in mind.

That’s especially true in light of recent school violence on college and high school campuses.

Both women were surprised to learn of new legislation wending its way through the Oklahoma House of Representatives that could loosen gun laws considerably – especially with regard to youth.

In response to shootings on the campus of Northern Illinois University and Virginia Tech, Oklahoma lawmaker Rep. Jason Murphey, R-Guthrie, proposed legislation that would allow 21-year-olds the right to carry concealed weapons on college campuses. According to the Associated Press, HB 2513 was approved Monday by the House Judiciary and Public Safety Committee and has now moved to the full House.

A second bill, HB 2232, by Rep. Jerry Ellis, D-Valliant, proposes 18-year-olds be allowed to apply for concealed weapon permits. This bill also passed committee, 15-1.

Rose, who has a 20-year-old granddaughter attending college and has worked with youth for about 30 years, finds the proposed legislation disturbing.

“I don’t think students of any age should be allowed to carry firearms on college campuses,” said Rose. “I know accidents happen too often, even when no one is angry. The problem of safety on campuses ... will not be solved by allowing more guns at the school.”

Parrott couldn’t believe the laws were even being considered.

“This is so dangerous and I will take note of who voted for this,” said Parrott. “It does nothing but make the situation more unstable and volatile. There are very few 18-year-olds who have enough common sense and self-control to ... handle a weapon, much less a license to carry a concealed weapon... . Those few who do have the wherewithal to own a gun are smart enough to realize it doesn’t belong with them in a classroom setting. The students need to be about the business of learning.”

The prevention of violence was the subject of a presentation by Help-In-Crisis Thursday morning. “Operation Saturation: Violence Elimination” sets out to collaborate with and empower community members and local organizations to eliminate violence in Tahlequah through advocacy, education and training.

Many attending the presentation – including NSU faculty, school administrators, volunteers and local clergy – were also surprised to learn of the two bills.

Retired NSU Professor Dr. Sara Brown said it’s sad Oklahomans are focusing on the violence.

“I wish we’d put our energy into getting health care for everyone,” she said.

Brown’s husband, Dudley, indicated he might favor certain faculty members being allowed to carry concealed weapons, but not students.

Thea Nietfeld, pastor for the Unitarian Universalist Congregation of Tahlequah, was stunned by the gun proposals.

“Wow, what a concept,” she said. “You have to wonder if these people have ever heard of the cycle of violence. Every time we respond to violence with violence, we up the violence. It’s ridiculous.”

Tahlequah High School Principal Dr. Nick Migliorino attended Thursday’s HIC conference. Recently, students posted cell-phone videos of fights in the cafeteria on YouTube, an Internet video site. Shortly after the video was posted, a report appeared on a Tulsa television news station. Despite numerous calls from concerned residents to the Daily Press and other media outlets, Migliorino indicated he’s personally received few complaints from parents.

“So far, the parents haven’t called me,” he said. “The media has been very sensitive to this issue. I’ve asked the students who have posted the videos on YouTube to take them off, and with the exception of one student, they all agreed.”

Migliorino said there is little the school can do to prevent this kind of video posting, and he could only speculate whether some of the “fights” may have been staged. He did acknowledge that cell phone video had become a problem. “No kids can, with the click of a small button, video anything,” said Migliorino. “The minute someone starts mouthing off, click! and it’s on video.”

When Migliorino learned of HB 2232, he was livid.

“Guns are strictly prohibited on school property, regardless of age,” said Migliorino. “However, if this law passes, we’ll look to up the number of gun-sniffing dogs we have on campus.”

Parrott agrees with this approach, and believes prevention is better than arming students. “I would much rather see things along the lines of armed guards, limited and monitored entrances with the necessary equipment to prevent weapons from being brought in, random security sweeps, canine patrols, and bar-code identification cards,” said Parrott. “I know that sounds very ‘Big Brother,’ but I would rather my granddaughters be protected by trained personnel than be allowed to carry a concealed weapon.”

NSU Associate Professor of Accounting Dr. John Yeutter supports the concept of HB 2513, citing a nationwide movement - www.concealedcampus. org - to allow licensed individuals to carry weapons on campus.

“For me, this is true both theoretically and practically,” said Yeutter. “I believe the Second Amendment was written to provide for the right of individuals to protect themselves. I walk across campus on a daily basis, often arriving before sunrise and leaving after dark. In the fall of 2002, I was confronted in my classroom by a student behaving in such an erratic manner that all the students felt an imminent threat, and when they had the opportunity, bolted for the door. Because of this, I see the need for properly licensed faculty to carry self-defense weapons. I would also like to see the universities [introduce] firearms training classes into the curriculum.”

NSU officials released a statement Thursday afternoon, opposing the plan to permit students to carry handguns.

“The campus shootings that have occurred during the past year are tragic reminders that all of our campuses are potential targets for these violent acts, and that it is virtually impossible to prevent these incidents,” states the release. “Adding more guns to an already volatile situation should not be the resolution.”

Officials noted safety is a priority at NSU, and many programs have been introduced – including development of emergency communication systems to alert faculty, staff and students of an emergency; requiring campus police to be CLEET-certified; conducting extensive training for active shooter situations; and establishing an emergency response team.

“This progress becomes substantially ineffective if concealed weapons are in the possession of untrained people; even though they may be licensed, it will dramatically compound the safety and security concerns of our campuses,” states the NSU release.

Yeutter pointed out the bill, as it reads, contained some unusual language that could exclude employees from carrying concealed weapons.

“Any employer should have the right to regulate whether its employees ... are armed,” he said. “But in this circumstance, this would place university faculty in the potentially dangerous position of being disarmed by their employer, while the students ... would be free to carry firearms. I have communicated with Rep. Murphey, and he assures me he will propose a floor amendment to allow properly licensed faculty to carry.”

Randy Gibson had a concealed weapon permit when he lived in Texas and was an adjunct instructor for five semesters at the University of Texas at Arlington. He is also the father of school-age girls.

“If someone has a license to carry, they should be able to carry to class,” said Gibson. “If you pass the background check, you are considered trustworthy as well as law-abiding. If you are going to do harm to someone, you’re already going to break the law with the intent of harming someone anyway. One [more] law ... will not make a difference to someone with the intent to break the law by harming someone to begin with.”

What they're saying

The Daily Press has been inundated with responses to a proposed state law that would allow 21-year-olds with concealed weapon permits to carry guns on college campuses, as well as another proposal to allow 18-year-olds the same right. Here’s a sampling:

Don Stucky, local resident: “‘An armed society is a polite society.’ I believe we’ve proved this is not so. Check out the book ‘Fist, Stick, Knife, Gun,’ for consideration of how the progression works. Better still, just ask our police force what they think.”

Larry Setters, gun owner: “I think it is a good idea to allow law-abiding citizens ... to carry to be allowed to protect themselves on campus. Several years ago, my wife and I were walking the NSU track, we were just getting to my truck when one of four ‘thugs’ ... jumped off of the wall and started chasing us I would hate to think what would have happened if we were still on the track. I do think conceal-and-carry courses should be more stringent. ... I think 18 is still a little young for conceal and carry. I have two daughters, 3 and 7. If and when they should go to college, I would hope someone would have the ability to take out a ‘psycho’ before several people would be hurt or killed. Campuses should be able to access students’ high school records that include behavior and discipline history, and detention and suspension records, and make a determination by a psychiatrist or psychologist committee if the student could be a threat.”

Olga Trammel, NSU employee: “I am shocked to think our legislators would even consider a bill like this. Twenty-one-year-old students can’t handle a can of beer, much less a loaded firearm. The few 21-year-olds who were responsible enough to use a firearm responsibly probably wouldn’t bring it on campus even if they were licensed. The kid who wanted to show off ... would be the one packing. Then, if something did happen, the licensed kid would most likely miss the suspect and kill his professor or a fellow student. There are just too many horrible scenarios that could really play out.”

Dr. Fritz Laux, NSU associate professor of business administration: “It seems clear the legislators - Democrat and Republican - who proposed these bills ... believe these bills promote student safety on college campuses... . Some studies say gun bans do increase victimization of unarmed law-abiders by criminals. Other studies say gun bans reduce murder and shooting rates, and doubly so for shootings in domestic disputes. The debate ... has become so politicized and full of ‘spin’ it’s difficult to know whom to believe... . As likely first targets for classroom shootings, I expect the majority of us professors would feel more comfortable about presenting controversial topics if guns were not allowed in classrooms.”

Dr. Denise Deason Toyne, NSU associate professor of business law: “It’s a no-win situation. I have my concealed carry permit. I would like to be able to carry on campus. If faculty had weapons, perhaps some of the tragedy could be minimized – for instance, shoot the shooter while they reload. But then, the people intent on killing as many as possible will get automatic weapons and not need to reload. The idea that I could be facing up to 45 people who are carrying a weapon that might get pointed at me does nothing to make me feel secure. As the mother of a college student, I am concerned for his safety. I am aware he is more at risk of being killed by a drunk driver than he is by another student firing a gun at him in a classroom. ... I think 18 is too young – even though they can be drafted into the military at 18, which I think is too young. The ability to reason, to exercise judgment is not fully developed - in either gender - until age 25. ... There will always be bad people, people with mental illness, sociopaths, and there will always be bad things happening to good people. We cannot allow ourselves to be in lockdown 24-7. One of the biggest problems I see in our society is we are locking ourselves away, young people feel disenfranchised and see no resources available for help. As much as I desperately want to keep my sons safe, [installing] fences and armed security guards and more metal detectors will not solve the problem.”

Dianne Barker-Harrold, former district attorney: “We cannot protect everyone against every possible negative scenario and every bad or mean thing that could happen. When I was DA, there were so many school shootings, including Fort Gibson, where my youngest daughter was at the time. In Tahlequah ... we had school resource officers who are still there today; we met to have a plan available as to what to do after an event happened. Not much discussion was had about how to prevent it. So, is the answer to arm those 18 and over? I don’t think we want to return to the Wild West. We need to talk more about troubled kids, what signs to watch for, pay attention to what our kids are doing, who they are associating with, what kind of video games, TV and movies they watch, and what Web sites they are visiting. Oklahoma’s Make My Day law and Stand Your Ground law are legal nightmares for prosecutors. They have their place. ... [But] arming 18-year-olds and saying, ‘Go to school. Did you get your homework? Backpack? Lunch money? Don’t forget your gun!’ – doesn’t fit with how I want my grandchildren sent off to school. ... Violence has become a viable way to solve a problem; a human life is less valuable, and with what we see on the news we have become desensitized. Why make it easier for that to happen? No matter if there is ... training, such as with the concealed weapons law we have, there is no substitute for hours of instruction law enforcement receives. Do you want youthful, immature folks who are not intensely trained in firearms handling to be ‘packing?’”